1. charles from duluth says:

    Most Americans felt comfortable with our moving into Iraq in 2003.They wanted to be sure the oil flow was safe.It was, I believe, to control the PRICE of oil.Saddam Hussein had a huge war debt from the eight year war with Iran.He asked Kuwait back in 1990 to raise the price of their oil so he could raise the price of his oil in order to pay for his war with Iran from 1980 to 1988. Kuwait said no and Saddam set their oil fields on fire.In a matter of a few short years oil went from $15 dollars a barrel to over $138 dollars a barrel.Before President George W. BUSH was out of office gasoline in Atlanta was over $4.00 per gallon.Of course this did not help Saddam, because he was hanged in 2006.In 2007, I was talking to a Special Forces officer, home from Iraq.His mission there had been to drop in and secure oil wells and keep them safe before our big push in March,2003.From what I understand, Iraq sits atop an ocean of oil.Maybe letting them divide into three individual States would solve the problems, India did Yugoslavia did.If you love the world protect America!

  2. rickscafe45 says:

    Sorry, forgot to mention the bombs – Bombs are not typically considered a defensive weapon. Used as a tool for area denial, yes in the short term -allowing us to get in and get the Yazdi out. Beyond that dropping bombs is not a defensive action.

  3. rickscafe45 says:

    First, I’m a libertarian, I follow the nonaggression principle to a large extent, I think there needs to be some more definition of what constitutes aggression (different argument all together). I think we absolutely needed to do something to protect the people we left in a state of chaos. This is a case of defense of a third party. As long as it remains a case of defense of a third party, those specifically put in a position we made possible by removing a strong leader (even if he was a national socialist), then I believe we have a moral obligation to help those who ask for help in that AO. Specifically the Yazdi, and probably the Kurds. If that means helping to evacuate them, I’m okay with that, I expect most of them won’t want to leave and we have no place to put them, so defense in place seems to be the only realistic short term solution. Perhaps we can negotiate with the Kurds and Turkey on a longer term solution.

    Power vacuums don’t last and Maliki made it worse by putting his cronies in the wrong places. The Iraqi people had the option to work for their own defense, and allowed it to fail, so I’m less inclined to help Iraq in general. It should be obvious at this point that they need to be capable of defending themselves if they wish to remain secular, otherwise the Shia should be looking for a new country, and the Sunni should plan on being part of the Caliphate. They are surrounded, with one possible escape route – though Turkey, and that seems likely to be a non starter.

    The three state solution was likely the ultimate goal of our machinations, I don’t believe for a minute it will actually work, unless the goal was leave only Sunni Islam standing. You’ve now have a region of small religious groups, shiite, yazdi, kurds surrounded with Islamic Jihadist states and no middle ground. Good luck keeping the piece – eventually the Sunni will finish them off, then turn back to Israel and things will get really ugly. We started pissing them off back when we backed the formation of Israel and we’ve been making it worse ever since. Outside of – war as a way of life – I don’t see any upside to our long term foreign policy of screwing with other nations. It never ends well for us – again, unless the goal was to keep us at war.

    Oil – no I don’t think it’s about the oil. From a business perspective it’s much cheaper to pay the bribes and Danegeld and keep the oil flowing. War is chaos, and chaos is bad for business – can’t get workers in, can’t get shipments out. It really just ends up shutting everything down. Helping push Sadam out of Kuwait, maybe… We were never going to be able to hold onto any of the oil lands past about 1920 when the mandate for Israel was pushed by the Brits and backed by the US.

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